The songs we featured during the recap:
“Silence of the Night” by Elaine
“The One Who Understood Me” by Nam Hye Seung and Park Sang Hee
How Episode 6 was all about secrets: the secrets people keep to protect themselves, the secrets kept to protect others, and the pain and misunderstandings that secrets can create.
Ho Su finally learning that the woman beside him is really Mi Ji after her drunken confession and sleep talking at his apartment.
Ji Yun’s growing feelings for Ho Su, her inferiority complex toward Mi Rae, and the realities of being a contract worker in South Korea.
The ethical and emotional dilemmas surrounding the headquarters redevelopment project and the confidential plans for the future light rail station.
Lee Chung Gu’s manipulative behavior and the growing sense that Mi Ji is being set up inside the company.
Kim Rosa’s mysterious inability to read, and the growing mystery surrounding her identity, her poetry, and her relationship to Sang Wol.
Mi Rae’s emotional collapse after the town gossip, and Se Jin’s reminder that “the rumors are fake, but the strawberries are real.”
The revelation that Gyeong Gu is likely gay, how Mi Ji protected his secret for years, and how misunderstandings destroyed Mi Ji and Ho Su’s relationship for over a decade.
The many K Drama elements in this episode, including drunken confessions, piggyback rides, triangles, wrist grabs, umbrella scenes, protective secrets, and emotional overheard conversations.
Park Bo Young’s extraordinary acting performance as four distinct versions of Mi Ji and Mi Rae, and why she deserved her Best Actress win at the Baeksang Awards.
References
K Drama Chat is a weekly podcast where we take one Korean (K) Drama each season and and recap and analyze each episode. K Drama Chat is available on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and Pandora.
Everyone, Sung Hee and I disagree about Gyeong Gu in this episode. To me, it's plain as day that he's gay, while she thinks it *might* be hinted and doesn't think it was revealed at all. You should have seen the texts back and forth between us. What do YOU think? Are you with me or Sung Hee? Haha!
ReplyDeleteDefinitely gay, and our leads all know it except Mirae and mayyybe strawberry farmer.
DeleteAlpha dude (creep) from high school was his first crush.
So sorry, Sung Hee! :)
DeleteI have to go back to this episode of the podcast again to hear why you thought it wasn't clear, because I was so tired last night when it dropped, that I fell asleep after the Anyeongs.
The recap was a lovely bedtime story though. You both have great voices for podcasting.
After rewatching then listening to this podcast, I agree with Joanna that Gyeong Gu is gay.
DeleteDoremi and Irma, the question is: without the podcast, would you have thought that Gyeong Gu was gay? I think the subtlety of this episode is what makes it so wonderful.
DeleteJoanna, yes, absolutely.
DeleteThe high school confession to his male classmate is the clear indication that he is gay.
Everything else from there reinforces it.
There is a similar storyline in the wonderful coming-of-age Kdrama 'Moment at Eighteen'.
Where I live, homosexuality was still illegal until the early 90s. No-one was 'out' in high school, male or female. Gyeonggu's scenario in OUS was very familiar and recognisable. Right down to the nasty boys and the oblivious ajhummas!
Gyeong-Gu is definitely gay and Mi-Rae now knows. She's totally cool with him after they had the flashback scene and it all makes sense to her. The hamster tattoo! It all lines up. And especially Gyeong-Gu's loyalty to "Mi-Ji" - I think he is trying to be protective of "Mi-Ji" and an outsider like Se-Jin is suspicious to him. And it's very on brand for Mi-Ji to "date" Gyeong-Gu as a way of protecting him in such a hostile place. It wasn't entirely clear to me if all the other boys knew or if pushing him to ask her out was already humiliation enough. But it was strange in a way that Ho-Su totally stepped back if he knew that Gyeong-Gu was gay. But I suppose it makes sense because they're all young, it's hard to confess to begin with, and he probably thought it was the more noble thing to keep the secret and back off. And agree with Doremi on the homophobia was very recognizable. Even in liberal parts of the US in the early 90s homophobia was very openly accepted.
DeleteOtherwise, I think Ho-Su did want to kiss Mi-Ji but she passed out. And it was kind of funny that Ho-Su had such great discretion personally but essentially lost his job because he didn't keep his mouth shut (and follow professional obligation) in the abuse case at the beginning of the show. Of course it all depends on who is hurt or not hurt.
SD Guy, I agree that (leaning in, eyes closed) Hosu was committed to that kiss!
DeleteI think Hosu was genuinely being noble in accepting Miji and Gyeonggu's 'relationship' even though he knew Gyeonggu was gay.
As for Gyeonggu's concern for pretend Miji re strawberry jam etc, I think he could be both worried about Sejin's motives and also jealous that his BFF might be pairing up with someone else after all this time.
He seems like he's 'the only gay in the village', and still not able to be completely out, and that must be pretty lonely.
Joanna, I just couldn't remember but I think I figured out Gyeonggu's gay on my first watch.
DeleteSD Guy, yes the hamster tattoo eventually made sense after this episode.
Guess I'm on the fence here! It's not an explicit reveal yet I agree that I walked away from episode 6 believing Gyeong Gu is gay, but it *was* subtle (for a K-drama!). I personally didn't consider it "plain as day," which is the only thing holding me back from outright agreeing with Joanna :) Rather, it felt like we're given strong hints but that the writer intentionally left out a clear-cut declaration with the intention of adding that in for more impact later. I got the impression the audience is intended to suspect but the writing is still leaving room for a slight sense of doubt or mystery around Ho Su's motivations in particular where Gyeong Gu is concerned.
DeletePerhaps it seems obvious for folks read/watched a lot of these types of setups with confessions in a homophobic context. That said, it would never occur to to me that the other plausible explanations for Ho Su to tell Gyeong Gu not to confess to Mi Ji are at the exclusion of Gyeong Gu being gay. It's not mutually exclusive: Ho Su could know Gyeong Gu's orientation and still not want him to confess.
What a great pivotal epidode! I agree with Joanna, Gyeong-Gu's homosexuality is rather obvious. But I wonder why he never left his rural hometown for a more tolerant and anonymous neighbourhood..
DeleteHo- Su's pleading with Gyeong -Gu not to tell Mi- Ji about his feelings shows his deep love for her. I dont't think it is about his desire to have her as his girlfriend, it's all about protecting her from becoming a laughing stock and getting hurt. He is such a green flag.
I have to agree with Joanna here. I got that Gyeong-Gu was gay when I first watched the series. His story reminds me of my high school best friend, who also had a "girlfriend" in high school, but we all knew he was gay. There are cultural stigmas and family expectations that keep many Asians from coming out when they are younger. And the bully probably also knew Geyong-Gu was gay and that's why he pushed him to asking Mi-Ji to be his girlfriend. That is the meanest thing you can do to a young person still grapplying with their sexuality. Who knows, maybe the bully is also gay, but will never admit it in this lifetime.
DeleteJoanna, I also LOVED Perfect Crown. It reminded me of Prince Harry and Megan Markle's story.
When I saw the scene I thought "that was weird, and I have no idea what just happened -- clearly I missed something!" I was confident the podcast would clarify, and as soon as Joanna offered her theory (and backed it up with some of the earlier dialogue evidence) the lightbulb of understanding lit over my head -- "ding, ding, ding!" That solution makes a lot of sense, and I think Joanna is absolutely on the money with this one!
DeleteErnabel, I can think of four examples from my school/early working life where the couples married their first 'sweetheart', had children young, and then broke up because one acknowledged their true sexual orientation.
DeleteThey genuinely loved each other, suffered intense pain at breaking up the family but couldn't live that lie anymore.
Miji and Gyeonggu are as close as they can be without being 'in love', (he is comfortably showing her his hidden tattoo and booking a platonic night in a fancy hotel room together) and, thank goodness, never got as far as marriage, with Gyeonggu coming out to Miji pretty much straight away.
I love that Hosu is more angry at GG's tormentor than GG himself. These 'subtle' plot elements really flesh out the characters. I find Hosu, Gyeonggu and Sejin (not minding the gossip:)) so endearing.
Wow. I am loving all the feedback on this episode.
DeleteI have to say that I agree with Joanna. Honestly, I didn’t even think it was a question as to whether Gyenong-gu was gay. I may be misremembering my first watch of the series, but I think I concluded that he was gay even before Mi Rae told him to pull the car over. I think for me, it was the fact that he had planed for them to spend the night together at a hotel without telling her and was acting so nonchalant about it was the giveaway. In conservative South Korea – or at least conservative K Dramas – this would be almost unheard of, even for best straight friends. I also think his “practice” confession to the bully was an actual confession that he backed out of once it was clear that it would not be accepted. I think Ho su and much of the school knew of suspected Gyenong-gu was gay. I think Ho-su told Gyenong-gu not to confess both because it would not be good for Gyenong-gu or Mi-ji to be in that type of relationship. But he also did not feel he had the right to share Gyenong-gu’s secret with Mi-ji. For all his outward appearance of being clueless, Ho-su is quite perceptive.
All, fantastic comments here! This episode clearly left some folks confused and I'm glad the podcast generated some answers and some discussion!
DeleteErnabel, I know you're talking about from high school. Didn't we all know?
And Ernabel, I'm so glad you loved Perfect Crown. I know we can point out all the problems, but I loved it. To me, it was a great watch, loved the actors, loved the acting, and the positively adore the OST!
About ' Perfect Crown' I totally agree with Sung Hee.I expected very much to love it, because I like IU and I considerd the premise of the show promising. But I did not like it. The visuals are beautiful, the acting is mostly good but the storytelling is shallow and there are way too many loose ends for my taste.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Naf. While I enjoyed the visuals and actors, I was looking for more depth.
DeleteI loved Perfect Crown. I think it was too short. It should have been 14 or 16 episodes so they could explore the back stories of the queen, the prime minister, both fathers, the guy who tampered with the car, etc. All that said, I still loved it and find myself going to YouTube to watch clips!
DeleteI wound up with Sung-hee on this one, and the gayness wasn’t so obvious to me. It was there, but subtle enough to ignore if you were looking at other aspects of the story. And I was, so count me as clueless on this one, Joanna!
ReplyDeleteI have to agree here with Seven Seas and Irma on WAATH, which I just finished. Maybe not for all viewers, but it touched me deeply, and I loved it. I’m looking forward to hearing the final verdict from you two!
Ellen, I finished WAATH and I loved it. Park Hae Young did it again. So far, it's my top KDrama for this year.
DeleteEllen and Irma,
DeleteIt is a hattrick. I also loved it. I have actually given it a rare 5 stars despite not being completely satsfied with the ending. But, I have quibbles rather than serious objections.
To put it in context. I have now completed 78 Kdramas. This is only 7th 5stars (2 of those are Park Hae Young series).
I am actually starting it over soon.
So many memorable lines that are both beautiful and unique.
Real people with real problems.
Fantastic acting across the board.
Oh Jung Se has cemented his place as one of my top 10 Korean male actors.
First time I see Koo Kyo Hwan in full series. Great performance. He gave me Robin Williams (RIP) vibes. He acted the sublime and ridiculous very well.
..and Go Youn Jung. Hands down her best performance in my opinion despite not having as much screentime as other series.
P.S: I decided to pause until further notice (maybe never lol) My Royal Nemesis after 3rd week. My investment is getting lower and lower as the series is slowly but surely sliding into familiar and routine territory.
I have no interest in watching a Chaebol drama. I was mainly intriguied by time travel, but this is diminishing in importance.
I hate to rain on everyone’s parade, but I did not enjoy WAATH. It had an amazing cast and great acting, but I found the storyline a bit of a mess. I think Koo Kyo Hwan gave a great performance based on the character he was given, and he will probably win a Baeksang for this performance – which is all that really matters… Amirite Seven Seas?! But I found his character so unlikeable with almost no redeeming qualities. For the first four or so episodes I kept thinking why are these people still friends with this guy?! I thought there was some great writing and great lines, but overall, the show just didn’t do it for me. Just my opinion though…..
DeleteAlso, My Royal Nemesis is probably my favorite K Drama this year! I guess agree to disagree!
DeleteIrma and Seven Seas, thank you for your wonderful comments. Seven seas I watched the finale 3 times now it gets better with each viewing. My other masterpiece dramas to date are My Mister, and Mr. Sunshine. Mr.Queen, WLGYT and CLOY are close behind, 9.5 in your system. This one might have lost me halfway through, but I decided to trust the writer. There are some much older classic Hollywood movies that have caught me this way, the ones where you feel like a better person for having watched them.
DeleteThese were The Best Years Of Our Lives, The African Queen, and The Shawshank Redemption, multiple Oscar winners all. This doesn’t give anything away, but there’s a scene in front of a shoe store, where I needed to pause for recovery before I could continue. It’s too bad that Matthew didn’t see what we saw in it, but many people did.
I was so enthusiastic about WAATH, having grown up with and around so many CREATIVES (some still in the business, some still frantically knocking on the magic, secret door) but, much like Malcolm, I found the lead character to be a special kind of irritating, annoying human. I'll give the dude props for at least saying the brutal, pathetic part out loud -- the loveliest sound in the world to him is the sound of his own voice; everything else is annoying chatter, everyone else is full of beans, only he can see the truth of the world. I get it -- not every k-drama lead needs to be heroic (or look like a model), and I've heard so many positive reviews I'm certain the character ultimately experiences some growth and makes at least one human connection. But...I found him to be so grating, pathetic and self-absorbed I just couldn't get past the first two episodes.
DeleteTHIS show on the other hand...holy smokes. The writing, the acting, the direction -- I'm in awe. Yes, give them all the awards. Episode 6 just about did me in. Initially I was worried it would heavily lean on the old "mistaken identity" identical twin thing, but it's SO MUCH MORE. It's really about what it means to be an individual, and there are themes about keeping secrets, depression and sorrow, what it means to be a sibling, a friend, a coworker, a mother (are there are any fathers in this show?), a romantic partner, a friend, and much more.
Incredibly well done, and so much deeper and more surprising than I would've guessed. The podcast is doing a GREAT job of breaking it down, week by week.
Oh Ellen and Seven Seas, I'm so glad you both loved it. While watching, I had to remind myself trust the writer. It's another beautiful series. And it's getter as you rewatch. That scene by the shoe store brought me to tears, I was crying. That's the magic of Park Hae Young's series for me.
DeleteI get that this type of story telling is not for everyone. Park Hae Young's writing is polarizing. I understand when others do not get it, and I don't push them to love it.
Malcolm, I'll go start My Royal Nemesis. I also love a good Chaebol story.
I'm on the fence about starting WAATH because of the conflicting reviews. Once I'm done with My Royal Nemesis, The Art of Sarah, and Phantom Lawyer, maybe I'll give it a try.
DeleteI'm loving My Royal Nemesis. Yes, like Seven Seas said, it has devolved to a predictable chaebol drama, but it's still fun.
Jopanna and Sung-hee asked me to weigh in on the legal/ethical implications of Mi-ji giving Go-su the confidential LRT information, so here it is. Basically, I think Mi-ji – and by extension Mi-rae - would be the ones in serious legal jeopardy if it became known that she disclosed this confidential information. Aside from firing her, the company could take legal action against her for disclosing the confidential information. However, unless her employment contract has specific language about what is confidential information, how it should be treated, and the consequences of divulging it, it might be a bit of a question - t least from an American legal perspective. In that situation, I would think a company, and the company’s lawyer, would want the employee to sign an NDA. As for Ho-su, because this is not an actual lawsuit, I don’t think he has any obligation to disclose that he got this confidential information. Just because you label something confidential does not give it any legal significance. Now if this were an actual lawsuit and he came across “privileged” information, such as attorney client communications, he would have an obligation to advise the other side - at least in the US.
ReplyDeleteThart being said, I had two thoughts. First, it would seem that Ho-su should be able to learn about the LRT station through other means. This is a massive public works project and surely some of the information should be publicly available. Second, because this is a public works project, I think the government would just be able to claim Miss Rossa’s property through eminent domain and pay her fair market value. We saw this in Attorney Woo. Of course, these two thoughts do not help advance the plot line!
Malcolm, thanks for your comments here. I'm with you about Mi Ji and Mi Rae being in legal hot water, but c'mon, this is a massive project! Surely there is public information about an LRT station being built!
DeleteMatthew, that makes sense from a public works viewpoint. How could there be a secret public works project with taxpayer money, that’s an oxymoron in and of itself. So there would have to be proposals and some public input. and therefore other opportunities to obtain the information. I think the real answer in this is that the crooked company doesn’t want her to find out that eminent domain, seizure and so-called just compensation will apply, they would rather that remain a secret as l as long as possible so that they can secure the land at the cheapest possible price. Once the public works, aspect is out of the bag, so to speak, that fair market value issue applies, and it becomes much more expensive. These people are crooks and that’s the explanation why they want it confidential.
ReplyDeleteWow, so many great comments!
ReplyDeleteFirst, to set the record straight, I did not say that Gyeong Gu is NOT gay. The point I made is that it was not obvious to me. I, for one, did not think it was "plain as day." It is completely consistent with everything we see in the episode and makes complete sense, but I did not see that it was explicitly expressed. It did completely go over my head and I did not pick it up at all until Joanna brought it up, but then I could see that it was true. But I also appreciate the subtlety that the writers had in treating a sensitive topic. It explained why Gyeong Gu and Miji would not have been dating, but they also treated Gyeong Gu with respect in not hitting us over the head with his sexual orientation.
As for WAATH, I found the first several episodes difficult to watch, especially in how the ML seems to antagonize everyone around him. Some of that was also due to my personal feelings in having known such difficult personalities in my own life. But that just leads to a greater reward when you see his progression through the story. I have not yet finished the series, but the writing is fantastic. There was one scene in particular in episode 9 that was so delicious I had to rewind it and watch twice just to fully enjoy it again. This show is definitely a slow burn and I'm looking forward to where it goes in the end.
I agree that the story of the Gyeonggu, Miji and Hosu 'triangle' is beautifully told, Sung Hee. The more I think about it, the more I realise that it's my own life experience that helped to make everything 'plain as day' to me.
DeleteI guess they *could* both have been straight platonic best friend exes who share hotel rooms together , and GG *could* just have been practising his confession in front of his very unkind male classmate. It's the lens I watched through that helped to make things clear to me.
Doremi, thanks for what you just said here. In old WWII movies, the camera would pan away from the couple to a curtain blowing in the window. When I watched them on TV with my parents as a child, I didn’t have any idea what that meant. Years later I complained to my dad, assuming people in those movies never made love or spent the night! And he said of course they made love and spent the night, you knew because of the curtain.
DeleteThat’s when he told me that it was a good system in ways, because us kids could watch sophisticated movies with our parents.
I agree with all of you that the writing and filming of the Gyeong Gu scenes were very well done. Even if you didn't realize Gyeong Gu is gay, the scenes worked!
DeleteMy high school junior year prom date was gay. My close friends and I knew, not sure about the rest of the school or the parents. We didn't pretend to be dating, we just went as a couple. I don't think my mom knew he was gay. So yeah, I have experience with this.
Ellen, IIRC, there was online discussion about the lack of bedroom scenes in CLOY. I actually liked this. It was left to the viewer to understand when that part of the leads' relationship began, and it meant that their love could be portrayed throughout as something far beyond physical attraction.
DeleteDoremi, THAT is one of my favorite parts about K Dramas. They are so family friendly, and yet so layered in meaning and possibilities. I love that we didn't have a bedroom scene in CLOY; we could focus on the relationship.
Delete