The songs featured during the recap: “Bluebird” by Ailee, “Love Designer” by Park Se-jun, and “Cupcake” by Park Se-jun and Kim Min Ji.
The heartbreaking story behind Nam Do-san’s Math Olympiad win and how it defined his identity and self-worth.
Seo Dal-mi’s slow realization that something is off. Why do Han Ji Pyeong and Nam Do San have the same birthday and handwriting?
The powerful metaphor of the wind: how it brings both luck and storms into Nam Do-san’s life.
Han Ji-pyeong's explosive confrontation with Choi Won-deok, his declaration of love for Dal-mi, and the emotional fallout.
The idea that risk is measurable, while danger is unpredictable, as articulated by Chairwoman Yoon in her evaluation of Won In-jae.
Nam Do-san’s confession to his parents that he cheated in the Math Olympiad, and their crushing disappointment.
The beautiful and emotional beach trip where Nam Do San gifts a moment of beauty to Seo Dal Mi’s grandmother.
The escalating love triangle, with both Nam Do San and Han Ji Pyeong vying for Seo Dal Mi’s heart.
The AI-related layoffs and protests surrounding In-jae Company and the broader implications for the workforce.
A tense and cinematic ending where Dal-mi uncovers the truth, leaving both Nam Do San and Han Ji Pyeong speechless and in emotional disarray.
The incredible performance of Seo Yi Sook, who plays Chairwoman Yoon, and her long and fascinating journey to stardom.
What we’re watching now, including Dynamite Kiss, Made in Korea, Can This Love Be Translated, Pro Bono, and more.
References
On reflection, I think the exploding bottle of milk *was* a portentious metaphor for what happened in this episode of Start-up!
ReplyDeleteA couple of thoughts:
1. I'm not as annoyed as Joanna at HJP. Both of our male leads have serious psychological issues from their childhoods, which they've pushed down for yeeears. Both have been self-absorbed. HJP has channelled his energy into making money and achieving worldy success. NDS has channelled his energy into ruminating over past mistakes.
It's *only* their encounter with adult SDM that has them looking beyond themselves to prioritise another person's happiness.
When the fermenting milk bottle of white lies pops its proverbial lid, NDS implodes (tears up, freezes, drinks himself stupid) and HJP explodes at the person who cares about him the most.
Both these initial responses are immature, because inside these grown men are two struggling kids. It's what happens after this crisis which will show us (and them, and SDM) what kind of men they really are.
2. I hate Netflix's translations of Korean words like 'hyung', 'unni', 'halmeoni' etc. Viki just leaves them as they are which is so much better, IMO.
Oh, and my husband overheard your discussion of NDS's imposter syndrome and thought it was a real life case study for a psychology podcast. 'Warped thinking' was his diagnosis for NDS.
DeleteDoremi, your analysis of Han Ji Pyeong and Nam Do San is BRILLIANT! And your analogy with the milk bottle is equally so. Wow!
DeleteYou are right. Something had to happen in these mens' lives to shake things up and finally let things explode and come out into the open.
As for your husband thinking you were listening to a real-life psychology podcast, you can tell him that Sung Hee and I play doctors, tech start up CEOs, psychologists, TV film critics, music critics, and KPop fans every week on our podcast! Haha!
Thanks Joanna! Although I guess I should have said 'pops its metaphorical lid' unless there's some proverb about fermenting milk. 'No use crying over sour milk, just get to Emergency asap', hahaha. :)
DeleteDoremi,
DeleteI really liked your thoughts about the two male leads.
Thanks, Seven Seas. :)I
DeleteDoremi, you are so right about Viki having the better translations. They will also often explain idioms, slang, and cultural references.
DeleteI have tried so hard to like NDS but I just can’t. If the grandmother and HJP wouldn’t have used his name, he would have never had a chance with SDM. Even after he met her, if it wasn’t for HJP coaching him and letting him borrow his car, clothes and office, I don’t think he would have been compatible with SDM. He’s always sulking about something and SDM needs someone with energy and a can do attitude which HJP has. Even if he’s rude sometimes he is the one that has been giving her the stepping stones needed to succeed. He definitely has some issues to work out but I think SDM would be happier with HJP OR someone else entirely. I’m sorry, I know I sound so mean but, like HJP my heart is in the right place and I want the best for SDM he he.
ReplyDeleteThis is the strength of this show. You and I are both watching the same things and coming to opposite conclusions! I think Seo Dal-mi and Nam Do-san complement each other beautifully. They've already moved beyond the superficial first meeting based on performance/appearance and found something deeper.
DeleteIt's great that HJP has realised he can fall in love, but I don't think he's the one for SDM. She's not about the money, she's about the passion and the dream. Whatever connection they had as kids through the letters is history. Will be interesting to see if there's any chemistry btwn them in upcoming episodes, because I don't see any so far.
Doremi, I agree with you completely (about the strength of the show). It is fascinating that people come out on the polar opposite sides. Joanna and I have completely different opinions about the two male leads, which makes for a much more interesting discussion. We are just naturally drawn to the characters in different ways. I think I said this to Joanna in our pre-recording warm up, but as much as we have rationales as to why we favor Nam Do San vs Han Ji Pyeong, I think it comes primarily from an emotional resonance with the characters, which we then try to back up with logical arguments.
DeleteI am still sitting on the fence between the two male leads.
DeleteBut, I agree with Doremi that NDS and Dal-Mi are more compatible.
It is such a tough situation. HJP cry of injustice is so true. He has really done all the heavy lifting so far. But, would he have loved Dal-Mi if she didn't look like Bae Suzy?
I think NDS is much more likely to have loved her for who she is.
I must say that emotionally I lean more towards HJP, but rationally, I think NDS &SDM are better off as couple.
Frankly, no happy ending no matter who she ends up with. And, of course, she might leave both.
Marcela, Doremi and Seven Seas,
DeleteI am LOVING the comments on the blog about this show! So many great perspectives, and so much heat about the male leads! Wow!
You all should hear the pre-recording conversations that Sung Hee and I have about Nam Do San and Han Ji Pyeong! We rail at each other and roar with laughter!
Team NDS, all the way!
One more vote for NDS here. I don't think Dal-mi likes him for the HJP coaching car, clothes, office, etc. They are both dreamers, that's why they are more compatible. But HJP did write the letters that affected her so much.... This is going to be messy!
DeleteAnother great podcast episode. Maybe even better than the episode itself.
ReplyDeleteThe final sequence of it was very good though, and I had to use all my will power not to start E10. But, it is so much more fun to follow and comment without knowing what will happen next.
These episodes are long, but not in a good way. There is so much that can be trimmed from various scenes to bring it down to the one hour or less mark.
Anyway, once again, I am largely in agreement with Sung-Hee (still not picking sides though lol), including on which of these endings happened. Last episode I wasn’t sure, but now, I am.
I think the exam issue, with all due respect, is blown out of proportion, and I wish the writer had either the guts to make him really cheat, or drop the whole thing.
NDS didn’t actively do anything. It was just coincidence. Also, there was no guarantee that was the correct answer. Furthermore, they didn’t tell us how much the second placed boy scored. Assuming that he got one answer wrong to be placed second, then they would have been at the very least joint winners.
Yes, he wasn’t 100% honest, and maybe he could have left that blank. But then again, he might have come up with an answer on his own after a while.
And finally, how can one single answer to a question turn you from a genius to a loser? Where is the sense of proportion?
I really disliked this whole storyline and how important it became.
But, the silver lining was watching Baek Yi Jin (I don’t care how many roles this actor will play. He will always be BYJ for me) all miserable, and teary eyed lol. I really like how this actor do these scenes.
I was waiting for the scene of Dal-Mi protecting her sister from the beginning, but I expected a slightly more reconciliatory aftermath. Anyway, It is like beating a dead horse now to wonder about these two.
As for the mother. Well, it has reached the point of “it so bad, it is good”. She is so ridiculously written, it is actually amusing now. I completely agree with what Sung-Hee said about her.
One more word about “No Other Choice”. I think the title is meant to be accusatory. All those who said it, did actually have another choice. But, it is something people say to justify their actions.
I continue to disagree with you ladies about how much importance you give these awards . I am sorry to be like a broken record, but it is one of my biggest pet peeves. I really dislike these awards (Baeksang included). And, just to prove my point, the film didn’t get a single Oscar nomination.
About the rise of AI. As an avid Sci-fi reader, writers as far back as the 40s and 50s could foresee what will happen.
Finally, I have started to watch a series that seems to have two titles. Rain or Shine (Netflix), and Just Between Lovers (everywhere else). It is from 2017 starring Lee Jun Ho & Won Jin A.
I didn’t realise that it also has the older sister. Her role has some similarities with Start Up. But, I think it is a small role.
It is about 3 people linked by a tragedy. After 3 episodes I am liking it. It has sad characters with lots of issues to resolve lol.
I have also watched the first episode of “Loving Strangers” , which is the Chinese remake of “My Mister”. Not sure if I will continue. It is a bit too soon. My Mister is still fresh in my mind. But, I thought I will let everyone here know.
Hi Seven Seas, interesting that the test angst seems overblown to you. It must be a personality thing, because I think it's one of the most realistic childhood traumas I have seen in a kdrama!
DeleteSeven Seas, my raised-Catholic mother lived to age 80, and her biggest regret in her whole life was cheating on a test in high school on a single answer! When I asked why it felt so bad, she said that her idea of herself was changed from someone who didn’t cheat to someone who once cheated. And Dal-mi also knew how deeply disappointed his parents would be in him. I agree with Doremi and others that self-respect, once compromised, is not easily regained. I think they did not make too much of it considering the prize he felt he didn’t deserve.
DeleteOn the writing in this show, we are all paying tribute here to it, because we’re debating these characters as though they’re real people, every drama writer’s dream! Great show.
Wow Ellen. That's a REAL Catholic for you!
DeleteEllen, you are right about the characters, but the other thing I've realised (because I've seen many more kdramas since I first watched Start-up) is how well each challenge/setback/triumph/setback sequence is plotted and paced.
DeleteSo I guess I have shows like Typhoon Family to thank for my extra appreciation of Start-up this time around!
Wow. What an episode and what a podcast. I missed commenting last week, so I have a bunch to say.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I love hearing the analytics. Not surprised that Tangerines did good numbers because you reviewed right after it came out. I think any show you review in real time will do well. And of course, CLOY is one of the most popular K Dramas of all time, so I am sure that there are lots of first timers checking out your podcast for insights.
Second, I absolutely LOVE Ailee! I discovered her when my YouTube feed started filling up with all kinds of K content. She debuted in 2012 and I think the height of her popularity was from then to about 2018, although she has been releasing music, especially for Soundtracks since then. She has been called the Beyonce of Korea because of her powerful voice. Fun fact, she married someone who was on the greatest K Drama Series of all time….. Here are just a few of her greatest hits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlALA9rF1gY&list=RDwlALA9rF1gY&start_radio=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5wfIKV36w&list=RDkO5wfIKV36w&start_radio=1
This one is from a variety show where non-professional singers come on the show and attempt to imitate professional singers, and the audience tries to guys who the real singer is. Ailee then sings one of her songs with the contestants. I think one is a bank teller and one is a fishmonger. This will give you goosebumps. Just look at Ailee’s face listening to these women!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM4YL_ntwW4&list=RDcM4YL_ntwW4&start_radio=1
As for the issue that Samsan Tech has to rely on CSRs as opposed to the actual users for revenue, I don’t buy it. Yes, the technology as it is being used with the app does not generate revenue, but there are so many other uses for this technology. The most obvious is that the military would be all over this technology. In fact, the Ukrainians are using AI visual reconnection with drones to do amazing things in the war with Russia. Granted, developing AI tech for the military is far less altruistic than helping blind people, and makes for a better story, but there are many obvious uses for this technology.
I think the mom and PowerPoint Girl™ are just here to provide some sense of fashion. Because you are not getting that from the other characters – unless you are a hoodie aficionado!
Here is an article from the OED that has a more comprehensive list of Korean words that have been added and when they were added:
https://www.oed.com/discover/daebak-a-k-update
As for those lists of the top K Dramas of all time, they don’t seem to be based on anything like viewing figures or some national poll, so I don’t give them much credence. They are just what those particular authors think are the best. Although the fact that Reply 1988 takes the top spot in both lists is interesting. Everyone knows the only purely objective list of the top K Dramas of All time is the “Official WMW List of the Greatest K Dramas™!” π Speaking of which…..
This is What Malcolm’s Watching:
ReplyDeleteCan This Love Be Translated on Netflix – Netflix did me dirty by releasing all 12 episodes at the same time for this one! This stars our guy Kim Sun-ho (HJP from Start Up) as a translator and Go Youn-Jung (Resident Playbook and Alchemy of Souls) as a famous actress. Honestly, this drama is all over the place. The first six episodes were not that great, almost like they were just setting the stage for the final six episodes that were much better. Kim Sun-ho plays a very similar character to Start Up in that he is attracted or in love with Go Young-jung’s character but won’t admit it to himself. SMH! She continues to be in love with him for reasons that are not entirely clear. She also has some childhood trauma to overcome. Ultimately, it was ok, with some great location shots in Japan, Canada, and Italy. But I just wasn’t buying the chemistry.
Undercover Mi$$ Hoang on Netflix – This stars Park Shin-hye (Doctor Slump, The Judge from Hell) as a Financial Supervisory Service employee who goes undercover as a newly recruited 20 year old worker to expose a corporate slush fund. (Park Shin-hye is 35!). But what I love most about this Drama is it also stars our lovely Ha Yoon-Kyung (Su-yeaon from Attorney Woo and Cho-won from See You in My 19th Life). But this time, her character is not so loveable…. So far it is just OK, but I will be sticking with it.
Spring Fever on Prime – This stars Lee Joo-bin (The Divorce Insurance, Queen of Tears) as teacher who moves from Seoul to a small village to escape a scandal and meets Ahn Bo-hyun (Flex x Cop). He comes across as a gangster, but of course he’s not, etc., etc., etc. Honestly, it’s not that great. Could someone get Lee Joo-bin a decent script?! There is a little “enemies to lovers” thing going on with the top two students in the school with is cute to watch. I’ll probably keep watching just for Lee Joo-bin.
No Tail to Tell on Netflix – This stars Kim Hye-yoon (Sol from Lovely Runner) as a nine tailed fox. But she is not so sweet in this role. She is more like the nasty characters she played in Snowdrop and Sky Castle. It also stars Lomon as a want to be professional soccer player. Fun fact, the only K Drama actor I’ve come across who was born in Uzbekistan! Honestly, the plot sounds a lot like if Son Heung-min became a famous soccer player because of a nine tailed fox and then things went very wrong.
I Dol I on Netflix and Viki – I just started this. It stars Sooyoung (Second Shot at Love and a member of Girls’ Generation) as a criminal defense attorney who ends up defending her favorites K Pop Idol of murder (Kim Jae-young – The Judge from Hell). I’m two episodes in and I’m not sure I can handle the legal inconsistencies!
And finally, last, but not least, the greatest K Drama Series of all time!
Singles Inferno, Season 5 on Netflix – I love this show so much! It is a completely ridiculous reality dating show where the contestants are on a small island (“Inferno”) and do nominal tasks and competitions – it’s no survivor. But the conceit is that when couples match or individuals win a game, they get to go to “Paradise” – a luxury hotel for a night. All the contestants are beautiful and fit, and they are all Instagram influencers looking for their 15 minutes of fame. It’s hard to tell what interactions are real or not, but the most enjoyable thing about the show are the five panelists who watch long with you and comment. I am not exaggerating that this show is better than any of the K Dramas I have watched so far this year!
Malcolm, I am loving the fan-girl fantasy of Idol I (getting up close and personal with your 'bias' in theor time of need). The legal side is very much secondary for me, so not a problem. :) Still interested, though, to see if the latest culprit they are pointing to is a red herring.
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