The songs featured during the recap: “Day and Night” by Jung Seung Hwan and “Start-Up” by Kim Dong Hyeok.
The parallels between this episode and Cyrano de Bergerac, with a mysterious letter-writer and mistaken identity.
The warmth and complexity of the relationship between Choi Won-deok and Han Ji-pyeong, and how their past connects them to Dal-mi’s present.
Seo Dal-mi’s struggle to prove her life choices were valid, especially when compared to her sister’s seemingly perfect life.
Dal-mi’s determination to attend the networking event and show off a successful partner, despite the nonexistence of Nam Do-san as she imagines him.
The brutal and unfair treatment Dal-mi receives at her job, and how her lack of a college degree limits her opportunities.
The curated social media life of Won In-jae, which masks a dysfunctional and lonely reality.
The complicated dynamics between Dal-mi, In-jae, and their estranged mother, especially the painful lack of contact over the years.
The reveal that Han Ji-pyeong has been receiving business plans from the real Nam Do-san, who’s been living in obscurity with his quirky tech partners.
Nam Do-san’s surprising and bold move to ask for a spot in Sandbox instead of money, showing a steely ambition behind his awkward exterior.
The moment Nam Do-san reads the heartfelt letters from Dal-mi, realizing how much he unknowingly meant to her during a difficult time.
Choi Won-deok’s panic as she realizes Dal-mi might meet the real Nam Do-san, threatening to unravel their entire ruse.
The transformation of Nam Do-san from a rumpled, unknown developer into the stylish man who shows up at the networking event.
The emotional significance of the unopened music box, and how it symbolizes Dal-mi’s feelings for Nam Do-san.
The episode ends with Samsan Tech posting the highest score in an AI competition and being selected by CODA, just as Nam Do-san steps into Dal-mi’s life.
References
Where are the usual comments?
ReplyDeleteHi, Anonymous, I'll have a go. :) Nothing very controversial or curious in this episode, perhaps?
ReplyDeleteI must say, watching this show in 2025 is a very different experience, as 'AI' (very broad interpretations of that word happening atm) continues its relentless intrusion into our lives and work, and those who've invested in it try to make it pay.
I notice the trend to humanise interactive tech by giving it cute human-like names is only getting stronger. And some people are actively turning to LLM's for companionship and counsel, with mixed results, to say the least.
The other thing that had me curious was Han Ji-pyeong's white suit. Was it symbolic? Does it mark him as a potential 'angel investor'?
Also -- tell me more about 'sandboxes'. I always thought it was a US word for what I would call a 'sandpit', which is somewhere for children to enjoy tactile, experimental, creative play. But in this drama it seems to mean what I would call 'softfall' under play equipment. Does 'sandbox' have both those meanings, and is that significant in Startup?
Sandboxes have a wider meaning in the video game gaming world.
DeleteIt’s the world or arenas in which you are engaging (playing) and, the bigger the sandbox, the larger the world or worlds you may enter and play. And some are very large and extensive. And expensive.
Multilayered meanings here, then. Sandbox is:
DeleteA soft place to fall, so you can take risks.
A place for creative play.
A competitive arena, with potential to widen your horizons, but which might come at a significant personal cost.
Yes! The multi-layered meanings of sandbox are terrific! Thank you!
DeleteI would have to say what stood out to me most in this episode, and Joanna picked up on this as well, is why Han Ji-Pyeong was so mean. Understanding his beginnings and not really knowing his past other than what we saw in episode 1, one can assume that his life in an orphanage was not a happy one. He treated Choi Won-Deok initially with suspicion and mistrust (but she saw through it), didn’t have much to his name after aging out of the institution and was quite possessive of what he had. Working in group homes in my past, I am reminded of trainings on how to deal with difficult children, and the one thing that stands out is that one of the most common ways people deal with neglected children who are having behavior problems is to take something away (possessions, privileges, kindness, etc.) not realizing their actions are exacerbating the situation and causing more pain to the child who already has little. I see this as something that Mr. Han dealt with and what shaped his personality. It is an answer, but not a great way to make progress. Already, the show makes a point that there should be a “soft landing” for those who take chances so that they might see more success, i.e. “The Sandbox.” Mr. Han’s attitude stood out as a contrast to the general theme of the show, not to make it bad but to provide a reality. Still, Kim Seon-Ho did this with so much ease that I had difficulties watching him in other shows without seeing the same sardonic look on his face.
ReplyDeleteTo me, even Hometown Cha Cha Cha suffered for that…I did like the show but not his character, same for “Strongest Deliveryman.” What redeemed him for me was his short role in “When Life Gives You Tangerines.” I didn’t recognize him at first and he had such a muted character. He loved IU’s character and his interpretation of his role doing that was terrific and that was enough for me.
Continued below...
I discovered Kim Seo Ho in Hometown Cha Cha Cha first, so I didn't have the same bias. I think Han Ji Pyeong has a tough exterior because of his childhood, but also because you probably have to be a really mean and tough person to be a successful VC.
DeleteI'm still not convinced he had to be really mean to the Samsan Tech guys on his way out, after Nam Do San said he wanted to be in Sandbox in return for attending the networking party. This makes me think Han Ji Pyeong is arrogant and used to getting his way. Look at how he treats his analyst!
Continuation...
ReplyDeleteI also think that Han Ji-Pyeong and Nam Do San both have a late start when it comes to romance. Mr. Han may be a little more mature but with the cynicism that comes with being in the capitalistic world, no time for romance there. Nam Do San has been a nose to the grindstone nerd, not showing any interest in a romantic relationship until now, so he’s a late bloomer. Both are a little awkward when it comes to Seo Dal Mi.
I also wonder what kind of feelings Han Ji-Pyeong (HJP) could have developed when the grandmother was the impetus and the main contributor of the letters. HJP only wrote was he was told so the heartfelt topics may have been thought of by grandmother with paraphrasing by HJP. To me, that would make it easy to dismiss when HJP left for Seoul. Add to that his general, self-involved attitude which would not have changed too much except the soft spot he had for grandmother, and even then, his attitude that he HAD to repay her as if her kindness was an obligation. This may not be the way he actually felt, but his actions could be interpreted that way. I think Grandmother surmised that, so her reminder to only come to her when he needed some emotional uplifting, knowing that unconditional kindness was what he would be lacking in his life. Also, I feel he kept the letters as a reminder of the only person who didn’t neglect him of kindness, not necessarily a connection to Seo Dal Mi. All this makes HJP to be a bit colder a person than some may want him to be. Joanna, in quoting from Strength to Strength, I think best describes what type of ambition HJP had and in this case, there’s little room for compassion and selflessness.
Seo Dal Mi’s emotional interpretation of her life events, in contrast to HJP, was what gave the story motion, her loss of her father, her deep clash with her sister, her letters to “Nam Do San,” her work ethic and lack of recognition, and her loyalty to her grandmother. The insertion of a love interest woven between all her experiences along with what I wrote about HJP are what I enjoy about this story...plus the tech stuff is very interesting. Check this video out! I found it a little after watching Start up for the first time.
https://youtu.be/oGvHtpJMO3M?si=ue883qMWbby-vB7P
Also, we have encountered Suzy before as the singer of "Inevitable," from Extraordinary Attorney Woo. Very talented person!
DeleteI liked the second episode more than the first. Here are random thoughts:
ReplyDelete* How can the Grandmother and Dal mi afford to live in such house on two very humble incomes?. I read that prices are really high in Seoul. Also, in so many Kdramas, even those with good jobs live in much smaller places.
I am going with them inheriting the Dad’s apartment, and selling it. Still, not very convincing since investing in the food stand/ saving it would be better, but it is plausible I guess.
*I agree with Joanna. Dal mi doesn’t have any business plan. Just didn’t want to lose the argument with her sister.
*The job situation sucks. Employers are creative in finding ways to cheat, and exploit their employees. I will stop here before I turn this into a long political rant against major companies and corporations lol.
* I also thought about Cyrano.
* Ji Pyeong being hurtful towards Baek Yi-Jin. Sorry, I mean Do San lol (This actor will always be Baek Yi-Jin for me). I agree with Joanna. He just pissed him off.
Ji Pyeong never came across as a nice person. Apart from his weak spot for the Grandmother, he is not nice to anyone so far. But, his decision to come back at the end of the episode shows that maybe there is something inside him. Yet to be seen.
Btw, he can help the Grandmother anonymously, and in obscure way. If somebody feels genuine gratitude, then they shouldn’t expect to be thanked for doing the right thing.
*The shoes remind me a bit of the candlesticks from “Les Miserables” (ideally you should read the novel a.k.a The Brick, but you can google it)
*Why Do san didn’t wear socks? Lol. I think I am old and out of touch with fashion.
*Bae Suzy is really beautiful, but based on those 2 episodes, I am not wowed by her acting. She is the weakest of the 4 imo. At least so far. This is one of the few series where I find male leads clearly better than female leads.
I finished “As You Stood By”. A hard watch, but a good series overall. I can’t say it is memorable or great though. The plot gets wobbly and threaten to go to Argan, but manages not to board the plane. (It greatly helped being only 8 episodes) I think what is greatly in favour of the series is the subject matter of domestic violence.
Although this is not Korean, but I recommend watching the Indonesian film “ Falling in Love Like in Movies” on Netflix. It is not because I loved it, but it really goes well with episode 12.17, which was very popular. Watch it, and you will see what I mean.
I agree that Han Ji-pyeong is not nice, but he's not bad either. He's got the kind of tough shell that kdramas traditionally liked their MLs to have, so the plucky poor girl (or in this case, firm but kind Halmeoni) can crack it.
DeleteIMO Nam Do-san is the reluctant Eliza Doolittle to Ji-pyeong's Professor Higgins, rather than Cyrano's protege. The fashion makeover is just the beginning of his transformation.
Both these guys are focused on business, rather than romance, at this point.
Also, the slimline, slightly shrunken suits, no socks, slip on shoes etc were still in fashion when Startup was filmed. Since then, the baggy look has taken over, in Kpop at least (which tends to be very fashion forward).
DeleteI only thought about Cyrano because of the letters, but I don't think Ji-pyeong & Do-san are like Cyrano & Christian de Neuvillette. I am not sure they are like Eliza & Higgins either.
DeleteI didn't say that Do-san is bad, it is too early to tell.
Whether him not being nice is a facade only is also yet to be seen (at least for me because I don't know what will happen).
Seven Seas, regarding their nice apartment, have you ever seen the show Friends?! I think the producers took a bit of creative license here. And even though Dal mi's shoe falls apart, the rest of her outfits are off the charts!
DeleteI agree that Bae Suzy is not the greatest actress. She was great in Gennie Make a Wish, but I think that role played to her sort of expressionless face. She was also good in Doona! for the same reason.
When Nam Do San gets a haircut and borrows his friend's suit, he does this on his own. He's not yet getting coaching by Han Ji Pyeong, so we have to give him credit for his own transformation. Yes, he's clueless, but he's got ambition and spunk, and he managed his own makeover!
DeleteSeven Seas, I'm not a fan of the dress shoes with no socks look. I'm old fashioned. I also think it's gotta be uncomfortable, and will make your feet and shoes stinky. :-)
Fair call! I've been sucked into watching a few more episodes and I'm really appreciating Do San's straightforward approach to life in general. He's not a 'player' by nature, but he's giving this roleplay thing his best shot.
DeleteI want to comment on Dal Mi's desire to become a permanent employee versus her employer's desire to have her quit and be rehired. Generally, temp employees are second class employees. In addition to lack of job security, temps might not receive benefits such as sick pay, vacations, or participation in retirement plans. They might also miss out on legal protections such as for wrongful termination.
ReplyDeleteDal Mi's employer's desire to have her quit might be due to South Korean laws restricting the use of temp employees beyond a certain term of employment. After she quit for a month they could rehire her again and restart her temp employee clock. Google "use of temp works restricted in Korea" (without quotes) for a nice AI summary.
I am not a lawyer and unqualified to give legal advice, but my understanding is that California employment law also restricts the employment term of temporary employees. This is due to employers who would try to keep employees a permanent temps, to avoid paying benefits due to regular employees.
Another incentive to terminate good temp employees is if they were hired through a job placement (aka "headhunter") firm. During the Internet boom in Silicon Valley, jobs were plentiful and qualified employees scarce. In this environment headhunters sent qualified candidates' resumes to employers. The headhunter is due a large payment when an employee is placed at a company, and the employee remains employed for a fixed period. The term of employment and size of the payment is subject to negotiation. In several cases, when I remained employed at a startup for one year, the company was contractually required to pay an amount equal to 20% to 30% of my first year salary to the headhunting firm. This is an incentive for companies not to retain employees unless they have really proved their worth.
If there is such a huge financial penalty, why would an employer use a headhunter? In order to gain access to a healthy stream of qualified candidates. Certain companies such as obscure startups, have such a low profile that no job-seekers will be able to find them in order to apply for work.
If it costs an employer so much money, why would a job seeker use a headhunter to find a job? Headhunters know where the opportunities are, whereas I as an unemployed tech worker, have no idea what startup companies are out there looking for someone with my qualifications. Also, individual headhunters have working relationships with specific hiring managers; in at least one case an employer rejected my resume when I sent it directly to the company, but a headhunter quickly got me an interview because he sent it to a specific hiring manager.
Headhunters are sometimes able to get much better feedback from employers about why a job seeker was rejected. After I lost a software developer job in a layoff and a headhunter sent me out on an interview, I found out that I was still depressed from losing my last job, and needed to act more happy if I wanted to get hired. An individual job seeker usually can't get that kind of candid feedback.
When I was a hiring manager at a startup company, I too worked with headhunters to find qualified candidates. We figured that the headhunter fees were just a standard cost of doing business, and were fine with paying in order to get good talent.
I hope this helps to clarify why Dal Mi's employer was so eager to have her quit her job, right after she had been instrumental in helping to establish a single day sales record.
Gordon, I 100% agree with you. Here in the US, you can't treat people like contract employees for too long. The state will come after you and say you need to turn them into employees and withhold taxes, and provide benefits. I think this is why Seo Sal Mi was asked to resign. Thank you for the info about South Korean law.
DeleteFascinating insight about headhunters. My company can't afford them!
Joanna, knitting shows up in True Beauty as a trauma recovery activity for the ML, after he suffers a severe panic attack. So maybe knitting is more widely accepted as a therapeutic activity than we realise. (It's probably also a signifier of a 'green light' sensitive guy, or at least another way to contrast NDS with HJP, who seems to have it all together in a traditionally masculine way.)
ReplyDeleteI mean green flag, not green light! See also Renaissance Man and SNAG.
DeleteThat's so wonderful. I love knitting. It is so relaxing for both mind and body. The stitches run rhythmically as the yarn passes through your fingers. It is so satisfying to see the finished product grown in your hands. At the end, you have something beautiful. Right now I'm knitting a throw blanket for my living room. It keeps my lap warm as I knit it, usually while watching Kdramas.
DeleteSounds wonderful!
DeleteSounds wonderful!
DeleteMy mother used to knit for us (My brother & I) when we were little around 6-7. She also sewed for us. She liked to do it. I have some memories of her magazines, and how she used to draw the design on paper.
DeleteWe loved watching her. The processing of making dress from scratch fascinated us.
When I look back now, I bet if it wasn't for social norms and us being boys, she would probably have taught us.
I am VERY clumsy with my hands, so I can't knit, but I certainly like to watch.
I’d like to stick up for Kim Seon Ho and his role in this drama as Han Ji Pyeong. Just this past year, in commemoration of this portrayal and its effect on his life, he donated $35,000 to help aging-out kids in the foster system. He did this on his birthday, here’s the link.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.soompi.com/article/1743261wpp/kim-seon-ho-makes-heartfelt-donation-on-his-birthday
He came across in this role as rough on the people around him, yet look at what great lengths he goes to to protect and help those very same people. This tough exterior with a big heart was the quality that the grandmother recognized in him. This self-protective behavior would be natural for someone with this history, even paralyzing at times.
To me this was a well-written part played by a great actor, and for me his story with the grandmother is the most compelling relationship in this great show. In real life, he’s the adored only son of doting parents!
His role in Hometown Cha Cha Cha has similarities in that the character is also an orphan who has known rough times. I hope Joanna and Sung-hee mention this aspect of the character and actor on the show. This guy is just good!
Yes, it's the exterior that is the issue, not what's inside. I wonder what the literal translation of the Korean words for 'good boy' is? And does this positive label influence teenage Ji-pyeong's self-image and ongoing behaviour?
DeleteInteresting question, Doremi! In How To Win Friends And Influence People, Dale Carnegie advised attributing virtues to people in hopes that they try to live up to the praise, deserved or not. Sometimes it works!
DeleteThe exact quote in Carnegie’s book is Principle No. 7 in Part 4, “Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to”.
DeleteEllen, the relationship between Han Ji Pyeong and the grandmother is one of the best things about this show. They are absolutely charming together!
DeleteI don't give a hoot about startups or business bro's, but decided to put my trust in our plucky podcast duo, and I'm glad I did, because this show has all the feels. I'm a sucker for orphan stories, and Grandmother's repeated kindness to Han Ji-pyeong has me reaching for the kleenex box.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Grandmother, the actress Han Ji-pyeon is absolutely HILARIOUS in "Strong Girl Nam-Soon" as the over-sexed matriarch of family where all of the women have super-duper strength. This 2023 Korean comedy tv show (Netflix) is so damn off-the-wall I honestly don't know WHO I could recommend it to!
Start Up borrows from Cyrano and carries that very old-school drama vibe (Oscar Wilde, Shakespeare) where misunderstandings and unfortunate actions happen because someone overhears something just off screen, or two characters accidently pass each other instead of meeting, or they don't say the one thing to each other that might clarify and resolve the conflict, etc.
So I don't worry too much about plot points. In fact, I breathed a sigh of relief when Han Ji-pyeong simply dumps all the letters on Nam Do-san's lap: "here, read these. Everyone else including the audience is already caught up." So at least we don't have to fret about THAT plot point.
I'm invested in the characters, with the exception of the mother and the sister, who are such ridiculous, unbelievable villains (at least in the first 2 episodes) I'm surprised the show doesn't give them mustaches to twirl, or have them tie the poor sister to the train tracks while they cackle "mwah-ha-ha!" The extreme animosity makes little sense, but perhaps the show will flesh these two characters out a bit, as they seem to be in a separate Start Up cartoon, running parallel to the actual show.
I like your comment about the letters, Jeff. The writers trusted the audience!
DeleteLike CEO Han Seon-Young's unexplained animosity towards Tae Su-Mi!
DeleteJeff! Fantastic comment about Han Ji Pyeong just dumping the letters on Nam Do San. Yes, he had to quickly catch up to where the audience was!
DeleteAnd yes, the animosity between the sisters and the mom is unexplained and bizarre. Where is it from? Maybe we'll never know but it is completely unnecessary. Yes, kind of like CEO Han's animosity toward Tae Su Mi in Attorney Woo!
I’m so late at posting! I gotta get this one in before Episode 3 drops! It’s been so long since I watched the episode and listened to the podcast, that I forgot all the insightful comments I was going to make! 😉 And I didn’t even get around to posting on episode 1! K Drama Gods forgive me!
ReplyDeleteI did not even think of the Cyrano de Bergerac comparison!
The splitting up of children of divorce seems to be a common K Drama trope. I wonder if it is as common in Korea. Also, fierce sibling rivalries are common in K Dramas, particularly among chaebol families. I have issues with my sister, but it aint nothing like this!
My main takeaway from this episode is that if I were Han Ji-pyeong and saw that Dal-mi was Bae Suzy, I would be “I WROTE THOSE LETTERS!”
I forget which episode you talk about how Bae Suzy got her start in K-Pop by being trainee at label and then cast in a group, but I think that almost entirely the way any musician gets their start in Korea. I’m not aware of any recent artist who just sort of organically appeared. If you are at all interested in how K-Pop works, I recommend the Balack Pink documentary on Netflix. I was not a K-Pop fan or a Black Pink fan prior to watching it, but after seeing what those girls went through and how hard they worked, I was impressed. The K-Pop industry has a lot of issues, but you can’t argue with the results!
As for What’s Malcolm Watching, the truth is, not a lot – relatively speaking. I’ve been traveling and am now at my sister’s house and apparently Uncle Malcolm can’t watch his K Dramas if his nieces want to watch Paw Patrol!!!
I’ve started two new dramas:
Nice to Not Meet You on Netflix – This stars Lee Jung-jae (Squid Game) and Lim Ji-yeon (from the movies Obsessed and The Treacherous and most famously as the leader of the bullies in The Glory). The first episode was bananas and all over the place. He’s a former actor who gets cast in a student film and becomes a famous TV detective. She’s an ace undercover investigative reporter. I have no idea where this show is going. It looks like she is going to be his love interest. He’s 54, my age, and she’s twenty years younger! Is that believable? Please say yes! 😉
Dynamite Kiss on Netflix – Thi show is amazing! It stars Jang Ki-Young (My Roommate is a Gumiho) and Ahn Eun-Jin (The Good Bad Mother, Hospital Playlist). In the first episode they meet on Jeju and kiss and then a series events occurs where she has to leave immediately and loses touch with him. Back in Seoul she needs a job so badly that she applies at a company that is only hiring mothers, and she is not a mother. So she convinces her best guy friend to pretend to be her husband. But the boss at the company is the guy she kissed! I think the love triangle paints itself. The chemistry in this show is off the charts! Highly recommended.
That’s all for this week. Off to kick the kids off the TV.
I think I will come back to your point about K-Pop, but it is midnight now, and I need to go to bed :)
DeleteI am also watching Dynamite Kiss. Personally, I wouldn't call it amazing (I must admit that I pressed that FF button few times), but it is entertaining and has enough to keep me engaged and the plot is thickening in a good, and chaotic way :) (I actually low key like the sister and her sidekick lool). I think I would have liked this more if I have watched it in my earlier days of Kdrama watching.
Malcolm, thank you, as always, for your recommendations. I'll check out Dynamite Kiss sometime. Netflix just dropped a whole lot of shows and my head in spinning!
DeleteI forgot to add one thing..... 1,000 bonus points for anyone who can tell me where the corn dog was invented!
ReplyDeleteCornville? hahaha. Btw, have you seen the musical Shucked? It is a corny lol, cheesy, and full of puns musical, but quite entertaining and great fun.
DeleteNice try, but no. And I have not seen Shucked. I'd consider it if it were about oysters.
DeleteConey Island?
DeleteWrong coast ;-)
DeleteI’m late to the party and won’t guess because I cheated ;) - but I did want to post that in SoCal Korean corn dogs are a thing!
Deletehttps://www.twohandsus.com/menu
They’re pretty good - there’s the menu if you want to guess what Grandma is selling.
I don't know where corn dogs were invented, but I do remember that we had them for lunch at the school cafeteria when I was growing up in Southern California. I would love to try Korean corn dogs, they must be amazing.
Delete